Unable to put off dedicating an episode to the UFO mystery any longer, Hine and Buckley welcome researcher, podcaster and writer Rob Kristoffersen. Rob is the creator and host of the incredibly popular podcast Our Strange Skies: UFOs Throughout History, co-creator of the web-comic Welcome UFO People and expert on all things extra-terrestrial, ultra-terrestrial, crypto-terrestrial and any other form in which the phenomenon may choose to manifest. Rob talks about his own weird experiences and Hine and Buckley waste no time in asking him the questions that keep them awake at night: What exactly is it that people are seeing when they see UFOs? Are UFO and alien encounters a range of different experiences and phenomena or are they all the same thing viewed through different lenses? What's the deal with Whitley Strieber and what the deal with Jacques Vallée? Is there a connection between UFOs and death? What's really behind the whole Disclosure movement? Which Cryptid has the best PR person? and what does Rob really think about capitalism...? (Recorded 4 March 2024)

Thanks to Rob for his time and thanks as always to Keith for the show notes, catch up with Keith at: @peakflow.bsky.social

Rob Kristoffersen online
Our Strange Skies website
Our Strange Skies on Instagram
Our Strange Skies on Twitter
Welcome UFO People on Instagram
Welcome UFO People on Twitter
Rob on Twitter
Rob on Patreon

Hine’s intro (and Buckley’s reminiscences)

Glasgow - Wikipedia
Gene Wilder - Pure Imagination (from "Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory" (1971) ) - YouTube
Willy Wonka experience: How did the viral sensation go so wrong? - BBC News
Willy Wonka: The Unknown star of viral chocolate experience unmasked - BBC News
Willy Wonka - Wikipedia
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (novel) - Wikipedia
Float (parade) - Wikipedia
Salmonella - Wikipedia
Queen’s Greatest Flix (1981) - YouTube
Close Encounters of the Third Kind (film) - Wikipedia
Close Encounters of the Third Kind (1977) - Original Trailer - YouTube
Todd Purse on Instagram
Richard Doty - Exopaedia

Avoiding talking about UFOs

VYS0020 | Messages of Deception - Vayse to Face with Mark Pilkington
VYS0030 | To Believe or Not to Believe - Vayse to Face with Emily Louise
UFO conspiracy theories: Disclosure - Wikipedia
‘It only takes one to be real and it changes humanity for ever’: what if we’ve been lied to about UFOs? - The Guardian

What made Rob want to start a podcast about UFOs?

Area 51 stored egg-shaped, SUV-sized UFO in the 1980s, claims whistleblower - Express
UFO and UAP Shapes and Sizes - Unidentified Phenomena
Volkswagen Beetle (VW Bug) - Wikipedia
Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell (novel) - Wikipedia
Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell by Susanna Clarke - Goodreads
Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell (TV series) - Wikipedia
Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell TV series - Official Trailer - YouTube
Piranesi (novel) - Wikipedia
Piranesi by Susanna Clarke - Goodreads
Intruders by Budd Hopkins - Goodreads
Budd Hopkins - Wikipedia
Hangar 1: The UFO Files - Wikipedia
Hangar 1: The UFO Files - UFO Superpowers - S02E12 (Edited) - YouTube
Mothman - Wikipedia
Horror In The Mojave Desert: The Disturbing Alien Abduction Of Steve And Dawn Hess - UFO Insight
Mojave Incident: Inspired by a Chilling Story of Alien Abduction by Ron Felber - Goodreads
Alien abduction - Wikipedia
Alien invasion - Wikipedia

The strange death of Zigmund Adamski

Todmorden - Wikipedia
Alan Godfrey - Wikipedia
Mystery of the Yorkshire miner found dumped on a coal pile with a face of 'absolute terror' -Yorkshire Examiner Live
Our Strange Skies 144: The Death of Zigmund Adamski & The Alien Abduction of Alan Godfrey
VYS0011 | Weird Tales - Vayse to Face with Dr Allen H Greenfield Pt.2
George Adamski - Wikipedia
Ziggy Stardust (character) - Wikipedia

Weird experiences and the ‘apathy ray’ effect

Our Strange Skies 89: The BAEliens (Big Ass Eared Aliens) with Greg Newkirk
Apathy - Wikipedia
VYS0037 | Elvis with a Flaming Sword - Vayse to Face with AP Strange
Unmanned aerial vehicle - Wikipedia
Lizard Men - Cryptid Wiki
Not Now, Bernard - Wikipedia
Not now, Bernard ... I'm on my iPhone: classic children's text reissued for digital era - The Guardian
How to regain a sense of childlike wonder - WellBeing
Faculty X - Colin Wilson Online
Criticism of capitalism - Wikipedia

Cryptids need better PR

Reptilian humanoid - Wikipedia
David Icke - Wikipedia
Reptilian conspiracy theory - Wikipedia
The Beast of Winter Hill - YouTube
The Mothman Prophecies (film) - Wikipedia
The Mothman Prophecies (2002) - Official Trailer - YouTube
Loveland Frogman - Wikipedia
Squonk - Wikipedia
Bigfoot - Wikipedia
Harry and the Hendersons - Wikipedia
Harry and the Hendersons Official Trailer #1 (1987) - YouTube
The Crow (1994 film) - Wikipedia
The Crow (1994) Official Trailer - YouTube
Sting (wrestler) - Wikipedia
Between by Megan Whitmer - Goodreads
Is Bigfoot Possibly an Alien Entity? - Huff Post
List of cryptids - Wikipedia
Loch Ness Monster - Wikipedia
Champ (folklore) - Wikipedia
Ogopogo - Wikipedia
The Bizarre, True Story of Gef the Talking Mongoose - Atlas Obscura
Gef (the Talking Mongoose) - Wikipedia
The World of the Unknown: All About Ghosts by Christopher Maynard - Goodreads
The World of the Unknown: All About Monsters by Carey Miller - Goodreads
The Safety Dance - Wikipedia
Men Without Hats - The Safety Dance (Official HD Video)

Rob’s early interest in the unexplained

Ghost Hunters (TV series) - Wikipedia
Ghost Hunters (2004) Season 1, Episode 1 Intro - YouTube
Psychic - Wikipedia
Paranormal State (TV Series) - Wikipedia
Paranormal State season teaser - YouTube
Psychic Kids (TV series) - Wikipedia
Psychic Kids: Children of the Paranormal trailer - YouTube
10 UFO Encounters That Involve Alien Humanoid Entities - List Verse

How does Rob stop himself from getting bored?

List of reported UFO sightings - Wikipedia
UFO Flaps - A Context for Scientific Study
Marius Dewilde (encounter with aliens, Nord, France, 1954) - Wikipedia
The day UFOs stopped play (Florence, Italy, 1954) - BBC News
UFO sightings in Brazil - Wikipedia
Truck drivers Gustavo González & José Ponce's violent encounter with an alien, Venezuela, 1954 -YouTube
NOTE: The interviewee here, Frank Edwards, says the event took place in 1957, but the year is
confirmed by other sources as being 1954.
1954: Cennina Landing and Encounter with Humanoids (the Rosa Lotti case) - Think About It
Candle snuffer - Wikipedia
Football helmet - Wikipedia
The Strange Link Between Fairies, Aliens and UFOs - Anomalien
Former Navy pilot Ryan Graves describes a UAP/UFO object: “Black cube inside of a clear sphere” - YouTube

What is it that people are seeing?

Extraterrestrial UFO hypothesis - Wikipedia
Interdimensional UFO hypothesis - Wikipedia
Mac Tonnies - Wikipedia
The Cryptoterrestrials: A Meditation on Indigenous Humanoids and the Aliens Among Us by Mac Tonnies - Goodreads
Whitley Streiber - Wikipedia
Budd Hopkins - Wikipedia
David Jacobs - Wikipedia
Alien abduction - Wikipedia
Our Strange Skies 134: The History of Alien Abductions, Part 6: Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs and the Shaping of a Phenomenon
The Humanoids by Charles Bowen, Aimé Michel, and Jacques F. Vallée - Goodreads
Flying Saucer Review website
Aimé Michel - Wikipedia
The Truth About Flying Saucers by Aimé Michel - Goodreads
Flying Saucers and the Straight-Line Mystery by Aimé Michel - Goodreads
Aimé Michel: Tribute to the Great French Ufologist - New Dawn Magazine
Aimé Michel: The Problem of Non-Contact - grepi.ch blog
A New Take on the Gaia Theory (includes quote from David Perkins) - Past Lives Project
Gaia hypothesis - Wikipedia
James Lovelock - Wikipedia
Somewhere in the Skies (Ryan Sprague) website
Mike Clelland’s website
Do Thousands of Alien Contact Accounts Share Same Message? - Gaia.com
Ariel School UFO incident - Wikipedia
Contactee - Wikipedia
VYS0036 | Infinite Game - Vayse to Face with Joseph Matheny
Ong’s hat website

Whitley Strieber

Whitley Strieber - Wikipedia
The Day After Tomorrow (2004 film) - Wikipedia
The Day After Tomorrow - Official Trailer HD - YouTube
The Coming Global Superstorm (1999 book) by Whitley Strieber - Wikipedia
The Coming Global Superstorm by Whitley Strieber - Goodreads
Communion (book) - Wikipedia
Communion: A True Story by Whitley Strieber - Goodreads
Communion by Whitley Strieber. Narrated by: Whitley Strieber - Audible
Remastered - Communion - by Whitley Strieber - Read by Roddy McDowall -YouTube
Prisoner of Infinity: Social Engineering, UFOs, and the Psychology of Fragmentation by Jasun Horsley - Goodreads
Narrative of the abduction phenomenon - Wikipedia
Click If You Dare: 100 Favorite Horror Stories - NPR
Our Strange Skies 136: The History of Alien Abductions, Part 7: Whitley Strieber, Part 1
Our Strange Skies 137: The History of Alien Abductions, Part 7: Whitley Strieber, Part 2
Our Strange Skies 138: The History of Alien Abductions, Part 7: Whitley Strieber, Part 3
Twin Peaks - Wikipedia
The Leftovers (TV series) - Wikipedia
The Leftovers Complete Series Trailer - YouTube
David Lynch - Wikipedia
The Hunger (1983 film) - Wikipedia
The Hunger (Strieber novel) - Wikipedia
The Hunger Official Trailer #1 (1983) HD - YouTube
Wolfen (film) - Wikipedia
The Wolfen (novel) - Wikipedia
Wolfen (1981) - Trailer HD 1080p - YouTube

“This has something to do with what humans call Death.”

Joshua Cutchin Unveils “The Ecology of Souls” - Daily Grail
Joshua Cutchin website
Ecology of Souls: A New Mythology of Death & the Paranormal - Volume One - Goodreads
Ecology of Souls: A New Mythology of Death & the Paranormal - Volume Two - Goodreads

Life, Afterlife and a New World by Whitley Strieber - Beyond World

Joshua Cutchin Unveils “The Ecology of Souls” - Daily Grail
Joshua Cutchin website
Ecology of Souls: A New Mythology of Death & the Paranormal - Volume One - Goodreads
Ecology of Souls: A New Mythology of Death & the Paranormal - Volume Two - Goodreads
Life, Afterlife and a New World by Whitley Strieber - Beyond World
Love and Saucers website
Love and Saucers: Trailer - YouTube
Love in an Alien Purgatory: The Life and Fantastic Art of David Huggins by Farah Yurdözü - Goodreads
Meet the Artist Painting the Aliens That Abducted Him - Artsy
Mantis Aliens - Gaia
Psychopomp - Wikipedia

Patterns in experiencers and lumberjack folklore

Anomalous experiences - Wikipedia
New Psychological Research Says Paranormal Experiences Are The Norm, Not The Exception - Forbes
Tarot card reading - Wikipedia
Bigfoot - Wikipedia
Fearsome critters (lumberjack folklore) - Wikipedia
Squonk - Wikipedia
Hodag - Wikipedia
Slide-Rock Bolter - Cryptid Wiki
Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers by Jacques F. Vallée

Is it the same thing viewed through different lenses?

Diana Walsh Pasulka - Wikipedia
The new American religion of UFOs (includes conversation with Diana Pasulka) - Vox
American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology by D.W. Pasulka - Goodreads
Sekret Machines: Gods - Volume 1 of Gods, Man, & War by Tom DeLonge and Peter Levenda - Goodreads
High Strangeness And Understanding It - Global Bizarre
Stan Romanek - Wikipedia
Why the Bible Cannot and Should Not Be Taken Literally - Brewminate
Burning bush - Wikipedia
Yelp - Wikipedia
Ezekiel - Wikipedia
Living creatures (Bible) - Wikipedia
What Do The Angels From The Bible Actually Look Like? - All That’s Interesting
Are UFOs Demonic? Preliminary Reflections - Ricochet
Encounters: Experiences with Nonhuman Intelligences by D.W. Pasulka - Goodreads
Which history of Satan book did Jacques Vallee hand to Dr. Pasulka? - Reddit
Jacques Vallée - Wikipedia
UFO of God: The Extraordinary True Story of Chris Bledsoe by Chris Bledsoe
Peter Levenda - Wikipedia
H.P. Lovecraft - Wikipedia
Cthulhu - Wikipedia
Sinister Forces Series by Peter Levenda - Goodreads

Is Jacques Vallée the Cigarette Smoking Man?

Jacques Vallée - Wikipedia
Cigarette Smoking Man - Wikipedia
Parapsychology research at SRI - Wikipedia
Remote viewing - Wikipedia
The Heart of the Internet: An Insider's View of the Origin & Promise of the On-line Revolution by Jacques F. Vallée - Goodreads
Jacques Vallee - Consciousness Software, Remote Viewing, Early Internet Origins, Parapsychology, SRI (2007 lecture) - YouTube
Venture capital - Wikipedia
Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers by Jacques F. Vallée - Goodreads
Project Bluebook - Wikipedia
Forbidden Science: Journals 1957-1969 by Jacques F. Vallée - Goodreads
Forbidden Science 2: California Hermetica, The Journals of Jacques Vallee 1970-1979 by Jacques F. Vallée - Goodreads
Forbidden Science 3: On the Trail of Hidden Truths, the Journals of Jacques Vallee 1980-1989 by Jacques F. Vallée - Goodreads
Forbidden Science 4: The Spring Hill Chronicles, the Journals of Jacques Vallee 1990-1999 by Jacques F. Vallée - Goodreads
Forbidden Science 5: Pacific Heights: The Journals of Jacques Vallee 2000-2009 by Jacques F. Vallée -Goodreads
UFO conspiracy theories: Disclosure - Wikipedia
Richard Doty - Exopaedia

UFO crash narratives

UFO Crash Retrievals — The Story, The Coverup, & the Road to Disclosure - Medium
Roswell incident - Wikipedia
Frank Scully - Wikipedia
Aztec, New Mexico crashed saucer hoax - Wikipedia
Behind the Flying Saucers by Frank Scully - Goodreads
Stanton T Friedman - Wikipedia
Interview with Stan Friedman on UFOs & Roswell - UFO Evidence
Jesse Marcel - Wikipedia
Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) - Wikipedia
Leonard H. Stringfield - Wikipedia
Leonard Stringfield’s Status Report at the 1978 MUFON Symposium (article) - Podcast UFO Live
Bill Moore (ufologist) - Wikipedia
The Roswell Incident by Charles Berlitz and William L. Moore - Goodreads
Unsolved Mysteries - Wikipedia
Unsolved Mysteries with Robert Stack - S2E1 - Full Episode (1989) - YouTube
NOTE: The Roswell crash documentary starts at 19:30 approx.
Sightings (TV series) - Wikipedia
Sightings - S01E01 1992 - The UFO Report - YouTube

What happened just before, during, and after the ‘80s

Uri Geller - Wikipedia
Uri Geller - Spoon Breaking - YouTube
Andrija Puharich - Wikipedia
The Invisible College: What a Group of Scientists Has Discovered About UFO Influence on the Human Race by Jacques F. Vallée - Goodreads
Neoliberalism - Wikipedia
Thatcherism - Wikipedia
Reaganomics - Wikipedia
Military-industrial complex - Wikipedia
Gulf War - Wikipedia
Close Encounters of the Third Kind - Wikipedia
Close Encounters of the Third Kind - Official Trailer - YouTube
E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial - Wikipedia
E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial - Trailer - YouTube
Steven Spielberg - Wikipedia
J. Allen Hynek - Wikipedia
The Day the Earth Stood Still - Wikipedia
Trailer - The Day The Earth Stood Still (1951) - YouTube
V (1983 miniseries) - Wikipedia
1983-05-01: V The Original Miniseries - YouTube
David Icke - Wikipedia
Bob Lazar - Wikipedia
Majestic 12 (MJ12) - Wikipedia
Roswell incident - Wikipedia
Alien abductions
The X-Files - Wikipedia
Mirage Men: An Adventure into Paranoia, Espionage, Psychological Warfare, and UFOs by Mark Pilkington - Goodreads
Mirage Men (documentary film) - Wikipedia page
Richard Doty - Exopaedia

Rob’s take on the disclosure thing

UFO conspiracy theories: Disclosure - Wikipedia
Pentagon UFO videos - Wikipedia
Mick West - Wikipedia
Committee for Skeptical Inquiry - Wikipedia
Hessdalen lights - Wikipedia
Brown mountain lights - Wikipedia
Vaccine hesitancy - Wikipedia
Jordan Peterson - Wikipedia
My beef with Jordan Peterson's all-cow diet - The Guardian
Alprazolam (Xanax) - Wikipedia
Inside Uri Geller's £8m mansion he's selling to move into 'tiny' flat furnished with Ikea - Mirror
Stardust Ranch: The Incredible True Story by John Edmonds - Goodreads
Katana - Wikipedia
The Saucer Life website
AlienCon 2023 is a Wrap! - YouTube
Skinwalker Ranch - Wikipedia

Rob’s Recommendations

Dimensions: A Casebook of Alien Contact by Jacques F. Vallée - Goodreads
Confrontations: A Scientist's Search for Alien Contact by Jacques F. Vallée - Goodreads
Revelations: Alien Contact and Human Deception by Jacques F. Vallée - Goodreads
Witness of Another World (2019) | Official English Trailer HD
Think Anomalous YT channel
Think Anomalous website
The Field Guide to Extraterrestrials by Patrick Huyghe - Goodreads

Buckley’s closing question

Jacques Vallée - Wikipedia
Capitalism - Wikipedia
Cthulhu - Wikipedia
Cigarette Smoking Man - Wikipedia
Satan - Wikipedia
Industrial Revolution - Wikipedia
Adam Smith - Wikipedia
Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia

Vayse online

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Music From Vayse: Volume 1 by Polypores - Bandcamp
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Special Guest: Rob Kristoffersen.

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